Jason chats with one of the original Aeoli Kephas, musicologist and current Swedite, Ezra Sandzer-Bell, about the difficulty of maintaining old friendships as we undergo personal mutation, how changing perspective often means losing friends, family as set against the individuation process, “relationships” as the illusory “third thing,” the observer and the observed, the filter of interpretation, the merchant mind, the endless internal dialogue of “do I feel good now?”, dissolving patterns, untying knots with the lightest of touches, the underlying order of being, original patterns of truth, the personal journey of consciousness, JDR again, integrating the personal unconscious, moving from personal to collective karma, an alternate view of reincarnation, the not-doing of bodhi sattvas, owning the collective shadow, the false idea of the Universe as a giant “education system,” getting to choose “past lives,” what gives value to existence, the impossibility of communicating knowing, the risks of alienation, severing worldly ties a little at a time, why being in our knowing slows us down, musical expression, collective creative endeavors, the tendency of artistic expression to reinforce the ego, Stop Making Sense and David Byrne, musical performance and the fusion of individual consciousness into a collective movement of being, and a last word about SWEDA.