Sean and Jason discuss Jason's shamanic apprenticeship in Guatemala, the works of Carlos Castaneda and how well they matched up with the reality, shamans as garbage-collectors, the shittiest job in the universe, a never-ending surrender, shaman as servant to community, mystery as the true nature of everything, the lines of the world, pitting the sorcerer's view against consensus view, the recapitulation, the Eagle, the ultimate goal-orientation of the sorcerer's path, JDR and simplicity, allowing the shallow to be shallow, the deep to be deep, the limitations of words, SWEDA as a home for the lost and frustrated, Sean losing his religion, praying to the Universe, acceptance of regret, fucking up for a reason, the pitfalls of being a psychedelic shaman and intentional magik, the entheogenic movement and false awakenings, Jason's red pill experience, Sean's first and last LSD trip, and back to SWEDA and generational patterns, and finally, Sean's Grammy-nominated performance of "Ain't No Thing Like a Chicken Wing."